Education department science teachers who are interested in using model rocketry as a teaching tool are invited to submit views on this thread. While knowing cost is one issue. Would be interested in their views as to why they are not using this as a tool currently! Is it the laws holding it back etc.
 
A 30 day poll has been attached. All is welcome to vote.

m,y boy has just gone from cubs to scouts. i was talking to his pack leader and asked if they would do something with rockets he said he was into the hobby and has been following PARC but felt that the kids were to irresponcible to be shown these things. I suggested a trip to a PARC launch day but he was not interested. i suppose it would be up to the indivusal teacher if they thought it would be approate to teach or not. Maybe PARC could advertise launch dates at high schools notice boards or something like that?

alchemist already does launches with the cubs

which pac
 

ask him  i dont know

Lol thats what got me hooked. Primary school and then High school.

Well i dont think most boys will be interested in Model rocketry theyre more like interested in hanging out with the ladies or doing some recreational sport or stiring up trouble

I studied aviation at school and did not need a rocket to learn about newtons laws of motion. Kids are not mature enough for rockets - thats just begging for trouble (a controlled environment like parc with attending parents is not the same as school with a teacher), and the teachers would need training/educating and thats not going to happen. Bad idea I say.

Gee I did not know all you guys work for the education department! lol   

I worked for the federal government for some time, and now I'm still technically a government employee.

As for the rockets - I'm not so sure I agree with Memmber.

In doing some homework on numbers of interested parties in my local area (planning for local club/group) I have found overwhelming interest.

HOWEVER...

I also agree that many do not posess the responsible nature to proceed with such tasks unsupervised.

A tactic that had been taken by my high school when I did this stuff - was to allow us to all build a c class from a kit. The motors were kept from us and fitted by an outside rocketry enthusiast.
Shortly before being launched while we were kept at a 200 meter radius.
The more responsible students were takes with trig mesurements, crowd control and pre-launch checks.

mostly went quite well.

first thing I did after that was to source a rocket kit.

well mabey thats just my school then

i liked to burn things in science dose that count

lol, magnesium strips... power point...

need I say any more?

Does anyone accuatlly know a Education Department science teacher who is using model rocketry as a teaching tool now??

Yes I do Rocketballsa. Also many school teachers Primary in Perth and across the whole country are buying from SB's and launching model rockets on school ovals.

Thats excellent news wolfies gurl. What better way to teach people the safety aspects of model rocketry than through a school. If all schools were doing this there would be no need for anyone to go to a school for demo launches. science teachers can do it all.

I recently assisted Nick at a local primary school with a rocketry demonstration. Unfortunately the weather did not allow an actual launch, but I think we may have some new memberships on the way.

That sounds promising Dranoweb!

i tried to get my boy's scout group interested in a rocket day but he thought the kids were to immature for it so i left it there. you know when you are beating your head against a brick wall some people wont listeren

mabe we could look at putting a pack together of rockets and motors and speaking to schools about launching rockets but safety first

Yes the main emphasis with the primary school event was safety.
I plan to get a couple of launch days and catch some public attention. I have so many curious people asking to come and observe.
I'll have to just spend a couple of weeks wages and buy up big for the event.
 
It's a pain though, just waiting on a few things to happen before I can set dates.
 
The local primary school has expressed interest in having us visit again and do a more in depth demonstration.
This will no doubt ripple into other areas.

i would love to do something like that with my boys school but there is no room even for a A sized rocket their oval is tiny  and i am not very good a public speaking something i am woking on.

At my school we have:
- a huge oval, should do for A's B's and the heavier C rockets
-An engineering teacher who I have got interested in rocketry
-Me, that being the main reason I want someone to launch rockets here  .
So it would be suitable. And we could claim something like it demonstrates newtons third law to convince the science teachers. Also might demonstrate the termainal velocity of a falling streamlined object  .

i have to have a go at my old science teacher . he said that newtons third law was einstins law i was a bit confused for a while not knowing what to beluve

I don't know why he's say that, I'm pretty sure Newton came up with "every force has an equal and opposite reaction".

thats wright but my teacher had a few screws loose

poor dazza went to the wrong school of rocketry

Quoted from George

At my school we have:
- a huge oval, should do for A's B's and the heavier C rockets
-An engineering teacher who I have got interested in rocketry
-Me, that being the main reason I want someone to launch rockets here  .
So it would be suitable. And we could claim something like it demonstrates newtons third law to convince the science teachers. Also might demonstrate the termainal velocity of a falling streamlined object  .

 
organizing a build and launch day shouldnt be that hard for your school talk to gdude, wolf and kev at the next launch I am sure they would be willing to put some ideas together

In engineering we made compressed CO2 powered dragsters, which are basically boring horisontal rockets, and the teacher said he was sick of things with wheels so rocketry might be in the course next year  (marks deducted for lawn darting  ) .

have a chat tomorrow with us george and we will see what we can do for you by the way what scholl do you go to ?

When I was 10 years old in primary school, we made model rockets in an activities class.  I didn't learn a thing, but I think it was more about engaging the pupils than learning any theory.  A few people who made rockets the following year got to launch them on the school oval, with everyone watching.  When it comes to learning about physics, I think there's a lot more straight forward and cheaper ways to demonstrate theory in action, which is why rocketry is used that much in schools.  When it is included in a curriculum it seems more about applying some stuff you already learnt to an activity that is fun, like a reward for learning stuff.

Quoted from DAZZA98

i have to have a go at my old science teacher . he said that newtons third law was einstins law i was a bit confused for a while not knowing what to beluve

 
Newton formulated it, Einstien applied it.
 
as for rockets in school, my little niece has been bragging left right and centre about her uncle and father launching "big" rockets, and I have heard that the principle is interested in having us visit.
 
Could turn out to be interesting.

I was talking to the physics teacher of a local school the other day. His students are messing around with home made PVC Rockets/black powder motors.

Can I run away now?

Hmm, maybe donating some commercially made motors may demonstrate the advantage and pursuade them to take a better path.

yea. are they using pvc for the air frame?

I may have misinterpreted that statement about the pvc, I read it as home made motors.
 

You make a good point there Dranoweb! It would be quite disturbing if that sort of activity is taking place in our schools!

I would actually find it more disturbing if it wasn't.

PVC Airframes and motor housings.

Was refering to home made motors Buzzard

Actually, just looked at my post again and its not quite clear. They are building Home made motors at home. Not at school. Sorry.

that is even worse.  someone should step in and say something before its to late.

Like I said, donating a few commercially made motors may change their viewpoint.
 
especially if you pitch it as "try these, they can lift alot more".

Teachers at Charleville QLD used model rockets to launch thier science program around Sept 2007.  The teachers were impressed, the launch went well but I don't know what involvement the kids had.  They can learn a lot if guided.  I know of several Brisbane schools who have had rocketry as a club or in science lessons.  Space education including small model rockets is encouraged in France by CNES.
A junior school group I am involved with launch about 200 rockets a year but they are all loaded by adult volunteers, and button pushed and rocket retrieved by the student.  They learn a lot of skills building, group work, etc which is already well documented.

Would be interested in knowing your view on this thread Mr F. Know your an education department science teacher!

For example; do you feel if the hobby was made more legal without burdomesome retrictions such as permits, air clearance and mandantory requirements to be in clubs that science teachers would be more likely to use model rocketry as a teaching tool?  

Quoted from RocketballSA

Would be interested in knowing your view on this thread Mr F. Know your an education department science teacher!

You got me Rocketball

It's my fourth year as a high-school science teacher this year but my first year of "doing rocketry" with students. I'd honestly never heard of this hobby/sport until this year. The reasons for me discovering rocketry were a bit of a stretch too. I was looking for "space stuff" to do for Science Week and found an old busted up Estes Gnome in the back corner of a cupboard. It took me a bit longer "to put two and two together" but that's what ultimately lead me to join the ARA.

I'd like to respond to the poll question first. "Should rocketry be taught in all schools?" I'd say, no way! It should be up to the teachers to decide. The beauty of SA's (and I assume most other state's) curriculum is that it is broad in scope and allows teachers to decide the details of what they teach as long as it fits within the definitions of the statements. Aspects of rocketry fit into several areas of science teaching and it has been easy for me to tie it into my lessons.

Reword the question, though, to "Should rocketry be available as a topic choice in all schools?" and I'd say "hell yeah!". I wish I'd known about it earlier! To think that I'd settled for bicarb-vinegar pop rockets (more like poop rockets) for the last three years! It's a shame that organisations like SASTA and ASTA (south australian & australian science teacher's associations) make NO MENTION in their journals of anything related to rocketry. This should/probably could be addressed.

To take this point further, it would be in the ARA's interests if it (or its members) promoted rocketry to teachers and schools. It's good to hear that people like Wolf & Wolfies Gurl are doing their bit! Some kind of fact sheet in the vein of "Rocketry for schools: info for teachers" that highlighted the rules and regs while also promoting the hobby would be very useful. If it already exists i'd like to know because I'm in the process of making my own version!

The biggest factor that would stop more schools participating is the cost of the hobby, including the $80 ARA membership. I wonder whether the ARA could come to some arrangement with the Education Departments... free ARA membership for the first year, perhaps? Or could the Department purchase a corporate membership that covers all teachers (good luck with that!). Ultimately, the more schools that run rocketry programs, the more members you'll get. If there was some form of free "teachers membership" that was only valid for launches on school grounds then the teachers and students who were genuinely interested in the hobby would get "real membership" to launch in their own time. That would leave the other main cost being the motors which could be supplemented by parents.

Quoted from RocketballSA

Do you feel if the hobby was made more legal without burdomesome retrictions such as permits, air clearance and mandantory requirements to be in clubs that science teachers would be more likely to use model rocketry as a teaching tool?  

My understanding was that permits & air clearance were related to MPR and HPR rather than LPR. Correct me if I'm wrong, please! Schools probably wouldn't see much point in MPR/HPR based on the cost alone. The only exception would be if a teacher wanted to launch a HPR as an example of what is possible within the hobby for those more interested.

I think it's good that you have to be in a club to launch rockets, from a student's point of view, anyway. Clubs should be the starting point for anyone in rocketry because they (should) demonstrate safe practise and be a source of advice, skill and resources for newbies. It only takes two adults to form a club... that's the science teacher and a lab assistant! Too easy!

Far out... what a long winded post. Who yanked my chain? I do need to finish with a final comment though:

Give me another six months and I'll have a much better answer for you, RB. Once this club is established and stable I plan to do an EP tour. Don't ask for details because it's just a flight of fancy at the moment. I would imagine it would involve me and a few of my best and brightest spending part of a day here and there at other schools to show what we've accomplished. That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons! You can just imagine the kids hounding their science teachers to do the same.

It might not win me too many favours though! Time will tell...

Mr F,
   it was my science teacher that had a clustered Saturn 5 with C6-5 engines in it that got me into flying rockets (in 1985 i think)....his was a 5 clustered thing that went up about 10m arced over then plummetted into the ground nose first....i was hooked, for a little while....i got my first Buck rogers rocket when i was about 13.

He also taught me how to make touch powder, but that's another story.

He also had a moto-guzzi motorcycle, i now also have a motorcycle.

He also had a rather funny moustache, but there you go.

The other thing i did was go out and get a science degree of the back of that, became a geologist and have done some pretty awesome things in my opinion.....

All of this because my science teacher was a rocket-man.....keep doing that, you would be surprised what effect it has on young minds.

I think Rocketry should at least be an option in schools, as much as any other area of science...it's physics and maths in practice...something i didn't really do until i went to university (and only passed by the skin of my teeth i might add).

Ah, touch powder. I recently found out how to make that  
Though I'm unlikely to get my hands on the materials, unless I ask my chem teacher... I doubt he is going to let me make explosives in class  

Quoted from Dogzilla

I think Rocketry should at least be an option in schools, as much as any other area of science...it's physics and maths in practice...something i didn't really do until i went to university (and only passed by the skin of my teeth i might add).

I totally agree that it should be an option. Now that you put it like that, though, wouldn't it be great if there was an actual subject of "Rocketry"? We've got a couple of kids studying Aussie Rules football as a full year subject both in Year 11 and 12. If they can do it, so can we!

Man, your teacher sounds like a crazy mofo. Like me, actually

I did aviation at school and I remember the aviation physics being mind numbingly boring. So I didnt learn a great deal. I ended up teaching myself a lot of stuff when I left school, but if we had had rockets, I may have paid more attention and would be working in science now, rather than working at harvey @#%!$ norman. Our laws of motion class saw us walking around the room and paying attention to what was occurring when we walk! wow! exciting.

It will always be beneficial if you can associate something practical to an educational topic (particularly something as impressive as a rocket launch)
If the schools restricted themselves to low power launches they don't need to join the ARA. However, once they've been "bitten by the bug", you would expect a number to want to progress to mid-power & HPR.
### are very active in the area of school presentations

Thankyou for those views Mr F! Think your spot on about the cost factor certainly!

The $80 membership fee is a deterance! The reason however it is this high is due only to the cost of insurance! Am aware that if anyone is doing rocketry as part of school lessons the schools insurance covers this activity! The problem arises when students want to launch rockets after hours on their school oval. Thats when the insurance of the school does not apply! This is a common problem for many!  

What everyone needs to understand is the more members the ARA gets the more likely the membership fees will drop! No one within the ARA is getting paid for their volunteer work as some may percieve! The ARA has made it extremely easy to start a section and to qualify for insurance! There appears no other alternative that will satisfy all states and territories! Unfortunately we appear to have groups within the Australian rocketry community who are working against the ARA under some dillusion that it is not in the best interest of the future of hobby rocketry in Australia for the ARA to exist.

These groups who appear to be driven by commercial interests and some bizzare ideas that there is a better alternative are hindering progress! I personally have faith in the Australian general public that they are not stupid and will work it out!  

It is hoped there is more education department science teachers out there with your attitude Mr F as this would be very positive for the future of hobby rocketry in Australia.