We are having troubles with our Mines Dept. They want us to be certified before we get a licence, but we can't get motors to certify until we are licenced so I was wondering...

Can you certify using a water rocket?

Steam would be fun too and they are both easy to make.

My guess is no.

I think you can certify on a hybrid but someone else will need to jump in and confirm this. Not that that probably helps you guys too much

I'm not even sure about Single Use HPR motors for cert purposes. There was a barney on the forum here about that a while back and I can't remember how it turned out.

The point of certification (as far as I'm concerned) is that you learn how to correctly assemble a HPR motor under the supervision of someone who's already done it along with demonstrating you understand how to build a strong, stable rocket.

Seems crazy that you need to get authorisation from a Mines Dept to possess propellants used to launch rockets. I know they like to blow stuff up in "them there mines" but we blow stuff up in a completely different manner

they don't have any HPR frame work (nor does it look like they will bother making any) so we are having to do all the same stuff as miners (including how to keep our motors safe from terrorist) we were thinking that there is alot of coal under LA1 so while we are at it maybe we could have some worker bee days and make some money for the club  

prob is they want us to certify before getting a licence, but we can't get motors before we have a licence. I have plent of video of me putting H128 motors together (by myself) and launching them but that seems not to count. My rocket always fly straight, they always land. The arguement was about the speed at which they landed.

One of my members wants to build a H powered catapult. I think an air cannon would be alot more fun. Ironically hybrids, steam, water, catapult and cannon are all alot harder to do that screwing a H128 together.

I was under the impression ARA allowed hybrids for certs and our guys have been looking into them since thats how we intend to do anything above K anyway (cause of the cost). We should just smash up n2o powered 1 ton lumps a metal within metres of the public, aparently car aren't as dangerous as little hobby rockets.

The main reason We are looking into the hybrid route is because according to the information we were given by Our dme (deedi) counterparts  yesterday.  A hybrid motor doesn't fall into their area of control and that right now We could be flying H power hybrids and NOT  be breaking any rules.

sounds like you need to make a trip to Adelaide!!! Maurice will cert you in a pinch and your problem is solved

In regards to cheap hybrid uber-K's... I remember ## (hang on, maybe Buzzard) crunching the numbers and reckoned hybrid mainly paid off in the mid-HPR range with J being optimum savings... mainly due to the cost of NO2 (err NO2 or N20) I think. Above K the costs came out pretty similar. Don't quote me on anything that's just been said

bah that's a daft thing to say when typing i'm already quoting myself!

I won't as we have done the numbers and given the prices we would pay it's cheap for us to go hybrid

Quoted from Mr F

I think you can certify on a hybrid but someone else will need to jump in and confirm this. Not that that probably helps you guys too much   

Yes you can certify on a Hybrid. The FIRST ever level 1 certification on a hybrid in Australia was on the 18th of April 2010 by Sean an AARC member. While he is likely unaware of this he is in fact famous and will be recorded as such via the historical records.

There is a catch however with certifying on hybrids. The person who certfies you must be familiar with hybrids also. Would as an ARA FTO advise against it on the basis it is too risky to use hybrids for cert flights as there are more things that can go wrong than compared with solids. Will need to be familar with electronic deployment ETC.

Thats what I admire about Sean. He has guts!    

Quoted from Iconia

We are having troubles with our Mines Dept. They want us to be certified before we get a licence, but we can't get motors to certify until we are licenced so I was wondering...
.

That is a "joke" There appears to be something afoot here. The ARA will be addressing this matter Iconia.

Worst case may come to Queensland myself and cert you guys. Got a place to stay at Mermaid Beach.  

May present an opportunity to meet with the head guy at DME to try and sort that mess out someone else appears to have created.

As for alternatives cant see anything that would appear practical.  

Yep - that's pretty much what needs to happen.
You need a certified FTO to witness the launch, which means either the FTO or the person attempting certification needs to travel.
The advantage with hybrids is that you don't need to be certified to "purchase the motor"
(BTW, Mr F it's N2O nitrous oxide, not NO2 Nitrogen dioxide)

Maurice if you go to QLD wouldn't you then first need the permits from Mines Dept that Iconia is referring to?

Cheers for the info Kryten, jeez as a science teacher I should probably know it!!!!

If I was anal (obviously must be) I would then go on to say its correct name should be Dinitrogen Monoxide just like water's chemical name is Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) there's a very funny fake conspiracy website about that chemical. If you're a bit of a science geek like me check out http://www.dhmo.org/ and read up on the deadly stuff.

Sorry for going off topic  

Not nesasarily Mr F. If you explain to them what is going on and dont dribble rubbish in their ears they are usually pretty good and willing to work with us. Problems arise when someone trys to pull the wool over their eyes or are not being totally honest with them. The ARA has an excellent relationship with all Australian explosives inspectorates!

dont worry it will be sorted one way or the other  

Quoted from RocketballSA

Not nesasarily Mr F. If you explain to them what is going on and dont dribble rubbish in their ears they are usually pretty good and willing to work with us. Problems arise when someone trys to pull the wool over their eyes or are not being totally honest with them. The ARA has an excellent relationship with all Australian explosives inspectorates!

The ARA can never have the same level of relationship with the QLD explosives inspectorates as ###. The guy that was sent to inspect our last launch seems to be at least a level 1 ###/### member and his name appears on the list of ### members that travelled with Ari to ********** event along with the guy that was suppose to supply us with motors and the guy that was going to help set up our site at Toowoomba.

I wonder if QLD explosives inspectors are allowed to own shares in the mines they inspect too.

Remember that it's their a$ses on the line if they approve something that's not quite right.
I really don't see a conflict of interest here.
If anything, it should benefit rocketry as a whole to have people in the various official departments familiar with rocketry